Standford Conversation

Home | Corrections | About | Warren Buckleitner | Mediatech | LittleClickers| Submit Products | Dust or Magic | Subscribe

Stanford Children's Software Conversation

CSR Issue: March/April 1998

January 22, 1998 was the day that forty-six children's software designers, educators and educational researchers met--on their own initiative--at Stanford University for what one participant called the "Woodstock of Educational Technologists."

For one day, a single university classroom contained a "who's who" of children's educational software, all sitting in a large circle, face to face. Attendees included software pioneers like Ann McCormick, Henry Olds, Teri Perl and Joyce Hakkenson, along with educational innovators such as Herbert Kohl, David Dwyer and researcher Roy Pea. All were on hand to reflect on the tumultuous world of children's software over the past 15 years, and to think about possibilities for the future. None of them were paid to be there.

While you may not know the names, you will know their products. These are the people who had the vision to bring you programs like Reader Rabbit, LOGO, Explore-A-Story, Math Workshop, Rocky's Boots, and Millie's Math House. These are the folks that helped turn clunky Commodore 64s and Apple IIs into powerful learning machines. "What struck me" said Margo Nanny, creator of Planetary Taxi and one of the meeting's organizers, "was that we invited 48 high powered industry people figuring that about 30 would make it. But 46 end up coming. It was obvious that people were ripe for a conversation."

Because the agenda for the day was left up to the participants, the "open meeting" protocol gave each person the chance to voice an opinion, or even design their own session around a specific topic. Topics ranged from social issues (how the children of the poor have little access to software) to a demonstration by Henry Olds on how to design software from a child's perspective&endash; on your hands and knees.

Following the meeting, we asked the participants to send us their reactions and opinions of the event (we've posted the entire collection of un-edited comments in the articles section of www.childrenssoftware.com). The loudest message expressed by most in attendance was a frustration with the entire state of technology and learning. "There is so much possible: lifelong learning, access to information, resources, people and ideas, world wide - it is frustrating not to be able to make it available to everyone immediately" wrote Joyce Hakkenson, the designer of some of the best early childhood software ever: Edmark's Millie's Math House and Bailey's Book House. Many of these people were on record in the 1980s as having predicted that technology would bring a "golden age of learning" by the year 2000, where learners of all ages and income levels could have access to top quality completely individualized education.

The reality of how technology is actually used in learning settings today is what participants found so discouraging. "Here we are, just 2 years short of the year 2000, and despite years of attempts at using computers in schools, most elementary teachers still don't systematically use technology, in any form, with their daily curriculum." And the educational equity gap, which many had hoped technology would help close, has widened instead of narrowed, which was a concern expressed by several participants, including Herbert Kohl, author of many educational essays, including "36 Children."

Others noted that today's computers, albeit amazing, are still relatively expensive and hard to use for the everyday person. As Dan Schultz of Michigan State University points out, the convenience stores on the corner have faster, more reliable networks (thanks to the state lottery system) than elementary schools.

Which Model: PBS or CBS? -- Many participants complained that the only software that has made money in the past few years have been the titles that are marketed to parents on the premise that they will "JumpStart" their child's grades; or else they are titles that are highly commercial in nature, perhaps carefully molded around a Disney script, or for making outfits for a Barbie doll. These are the products that are selling, instead of more conceptually exciting, original, award-winning programs like Orly's Draw-A-Story or Hollywood. It's programs like these that truly take advantage of the interactive nature of the medium.

The rapid consolidations of companies, the problems of distribution and lack of shelf space, along with reduced sales of CDs in part due to a national movement towards Internet, have made for some difficult times for the smaller companies who want to stay independent. Companies like Voyager, DK, Theatrix, MECC, and Cloud 9 (who made the wonderful I Can Be an Animal Doctor) have had to lay off people or close their doors altogether. Ann McCormick, the founder of The Learning Company, wrote "the most striking comment I heard was from one of the most gifted, brilliant, experienced women I know in children's software, who said 'There is no job for me.' I felt, 'what is wrong with our country?' 'Our children need what we can build together' People should be hounding us to create what the next generation needs."

Figuring out the New and Changing Industry --The problems outlined above can be attributed to the rapid growth of the children's software industry ... from 68 programs a year in the late 80s to 700 programs per year in the late 90s. Such exponential growth begets a whole new set of issues for creating and selling children's software products. The worry is that BIG companies and BIG business are interested only in selling, not innovation. It's important for those in the industry to keep things in perspective, though, and to set new goals instead of lamenting days gone by. Craig Southard, an Executive Producer for Selavy Studios offered this take on the situation. "A lot of us present were, by accident or luck, among the early innovators in creating electronic-based learning tools. That does not mean everything we made was great and earth-shattering. It also doesn't mean that the commercial forces, which have inevitably taken control of the industry and made commodities out of those early innovations, cannot produce new and important products. We need to work within the existing publishing industry to create new products that better utilize technology instead of moaning about the 'good old days'..."

After looking at the 600 or so programs released in the past year, we have to agree that the innovation level has decreased. But it's still possible, even easy, to find outstanding, cutting edge examples of children's software. Two such programs are SimCity 3000 (coming fall of '98), and the soon to be released LEGO Mindstorms, where children build an invention with real LEGO bricks and then use their computers to program the way the invention works. One thing clear from this historic Stanford meeting--people are still excited about the promise that microcomputer technology holds for learning. We just wish we'd get where we're going a little sooner.

Note: Following the meeting, CSR conducted an e-mail survey of the participants, inviting them to write their own reactions about the state of the children's software industry. To see the complete messages from which this article was based, see the article entry "Stanford Children's Software Conversation Transcripts."

Readers might be also interested in the Dust or Magic Institute on the design of Children's Interactive Media.

The Stanford Attendees, (in alphabetical order): Sara Armstrong, Burt Arnowitz, Brigid Barron, Bob Benoit, Jane Boston, Holly Brady, Anne Bubnic, Warren Buckleitner, Marge Cappo, Kenneth Chan, Michael Chertok, Chris Doner, David Dwyer, Jim Greeno, Jan Half, Joyce Hakansson, Paul Horowitz, Amy James, Frona Kahn, Ted Kahn, Michael Kamil, Herbert Kohl, Robert Kozma, Larry Kubota, Midian Kurland, Ariella Lehrer, Rita Levinson, Ann McCormick, Bob Mohl, Margo Nanny, Denis Newman, Henry Olds, Jennifer Pahlka, Roy Pea, Teri Perl, Judy Salpeter, Susan Schilling, Craig Southard, Laurie Strand, Larry Tesler, KoAnn Vikoren, Keith Vogt, Tom Wicks, Kristina Woolsey, Curtis Wong, Don Zundel

Ann McCormick, the founder of The Learning Company, wrote "the most striking comment I heard was from one of the most gifted, brilliant, experienced women I know in children's software, who said 'There is no job for me.' I felt, 'what is wrong with our country?' 'Our children need what we can build together' People should be hounding us to create what the next generation needs."

Note: Following the meeting, CSR conducted an e-mail survey of the participants, inviting them to write their own reactions about the state of the children's software industry. To see the complete messages from which this article was based, see the article entry "Stanford Children's Software Conversation Transcripts."

Home || About
Contact

Disclaimer and Copyright © 2003 Active Learning Associates, Inc. All rights reserved.



Stanford Children's Software Conversation

CSR Issue: March/April 1998 January 22, 1998 was the day that forty-six children's software designers, educators and educational researchers met--on their own initiative--at Stanford University for what one participant called the "Woodstock of Educational Technologists." For one day, a single university classroom contained a "who's who" of children's educational software, all sitting in a large circle, face to face. Attendees included software pioneers like Ann McCormick, Henry Olds, Teri Perl and Joyce Hakkenson, along with educational innovators such as Herbert Kohl, David Dwyer and researcher Roy Pea. All were on hand to reflect on the tumultuous world of children's software over the past 15 years, and to think about possibilities for the future. None of them were paid to be there. While you may not know the names, you will know their products. These are the people who had the vision to bring you programs like Reader Rabbit, LOGO, Explore-A-Story, Math Workshop, Rocky's Boots, and Millie's Math House. These are the folks that helped turn clunky Commodore 64s and Apple IIs into powerful learning machines. "What struck me" said Margo Nanny, creator of Planetary Taxi and one of the meeting's organizers, "was that we invited 48 high powered industry people figuring that about 30 would make it. But 46 end up coming. It was obvious that people were ripe for a conversation." Because the agenda for the day was left up to the participants, the "open meeting" protocol gave each person the chance to voice an opinion, or even design their own session around a specific topic. Topics ranged from social issues (how the children of the poor have little access to software) to a demonstration by Henry Olds on how to design software from a child's perspective&endash; on your hands and knees. Following the meeting, we asked the participants to send us their reactions and opinions of the event (we've posted the entire collection of un-edited comments in the articles section of www.childrenssoftware.com). The loudest message expressed by most in attendance was a frustration with the entire state of technology and learning. "There is so much possible: lifelong learning, access to information, resources, people and ideas, world wide - it is frustrating not to be able to make it available to everyone immediately" wrote Joyce Hakkenson, the designer of some of the best early childhood software ever: Edmark's Millie's Math House and Bailey's Book House. Many of these people were on record in the 1980s as having predicted that technology would bring a "golden age of learning" by the year 2000, where learners of all ages and income levels could have access to top quality completely individualized education. The reality of how technology is actually used in learning settings today is what participants found so discouraging. "Here we are, just 2 years short of the year 2000, and despite years of attempts at using computers in schools, most elementary teachers still don't systematically use technology, in any form, with their daily curriculum." And the educational equity gap, which many had hoped technology would help close, has widened instead of narrowed, which was a concern expressed by several participants, including Herbert Kohl, author of many educational essays, including "36 Children." Others noted that today's computers, albeit amazing, are still relatively expensive and hard to use for the everyday person. As Dan Schultz of Michigan State University points out, the convenience stores on the corner have faster, more reliable networks (thanks to the state lottery system) than elementary schools. Which Model: PBS or CBS? -- Many participants complained that the only software that has made money in the past few years have been the titles that are marketed to parents on the premise that they will "JumpStart" their child's grades; or else they are titles that are highly commercial in nature, perhaps carefully molded around a Disney script, or for making outfits for a Barbie doll. These are the products that are selling, instead of more conceptually exciting, original, award-winning programs like Orly's Draw-A-Story or Hollywood. It's programs like these that truly take advantage of the interactive nature of the medium. The rapid consolidations of companies, the problems of distribution and lack of shelf space, along with reduced sales of CDs in part due to a national movement towards Internet, have made for some difficult times for the smaller companies who want to stay independent. Companies like Voyager, DK, Theatrix, MECC, and Cloud 9 (who made the wonderful I Can Be an Animal Doctor) have had to lay off people or close their doors altogether. Ann McCormick, the founder of The Learning Company, wrote "the most striking comment I heard was from one of the most gifted, brilliant, experienced women I know in children's software, who said 'There is no job for me.' I felt, 'what is wrong with our country?' 'Our children need what we can build together' People should be hounding us to create what the next generation needs." Figuring out the New and Changing Industry --The problems outlined above can be attributed to the rapid growth of the children's software industry ... from 68 programs a year in the late 80s to 700 programs per year in the late 90s. Such exponential growth begets a whole new set of issues for creating and selling children's software products. The worry is that BIG companies and BIG business are interested only in selling, not innovation. It's important for those in the industry to keep things in perspective, though, and to set new goals instead of lamenting days gone by. Craig Southard, an Executive Producer for Selavy Studios offered this take on the situation. "A lot of us present were, by accident or luck, among the early innovators in creating electronic-based learning tools. That does not mean everything we made was great and earth-shattering. It also doesn't mean that the commercial forces, which have inevitably taken control of the industry and made commodities out of those early innovations, cannot produce new and important products. We need to work within the existing publishing industry to create new products that better utilize technology instead of moaning about the 'good old days'..." After looking at the 600 or so programs released in the past year, we have to agree that the innovation level has decreased. But it's still possible, even easy, to find outstanding, cutting edge examples of children's software. Two such programs are SimCity 3000 (coming fall of '98), and the soon to be released LEGO Mindstorms, where children build an invention with real LEGO bricks and then use their computers to program the way the invention works. One thing clear from this historic Stanford meeting--people are still excited about the promise that microcomputer technology holds for learning. We just wish we'd get where we're going a little sooner. Note: Following the meeting, CSR conducted an e-mail survey of the participants, inviting them to write their own reactions about the state of the children's software industry. To see the complete messages from which this article was based, see the article entry "Stanford Children's Software Conversation Transcripts." Readers might be also interested in the Dust or Magic Institute on the design of Children's Interactive Media.		The Stanford Attendees, (in alphabetical order): Sara Armstrong, Burt Arnowitz, Brigid Barron, Bob Benoit, Jane Boston, Holly Brady, Anne Bubnic, Warren Buckleitner, Marge Cappo, Kenneth Chan, Michael Chertok, Chris Doner, David Dwyer, Jim Greeno, Jan Half, Joyce Hakansson, Paul Horowitz, Amy James, Frona Kahn, Ted Kahn, Michael Kamil, Herbert Kohl, Robert Kozma, Larry Kubota, Midian Kurland, Ariella Lehrer, Rita Levinson, Ann McCormick, Bob Mohl, Margo Nanny, Denis Newman, Henry Olds, Jennifer Pahlka, Roy Pea, Teri Perl, Judy Salpeter, Susan Schilling, Craig Southard, Laurie Strand, Larry Tesler, KoAnn Vikoren, Keith Vogt, Tom Wicks, Kristina Woolsey, Curtis Wong, Don Zundel Ann McCormick, the founder of The Learning Company, wrote "the most striking comment I heard was from one of the most gifted, brilliant, experienced women I know in children's software, who said 'There is no job for me.' I felt, 'what is wrong with our country?' 'Our children need what we can build together' People should be hounding us to create what the next generation needs." Note: Following the meeting, CSR conducted an e-mail survey of the participants, inviting them to write their own reactions about the state of the children's software industry. To see the complete messages from which this article was based, see the article entry "Stanford Children's Software Conversation Transcripts."